When you are in a relationship that isn't really what you or your mate thought they wanted, how do you know when to get out of it? How many times do you try again? Does a marriage counselor work?

Does anyone have experience in these matters?

I am very lucky to be in a happy marriage, but no marriage is always perfect, and, if you love each other, and want it to work, it's worth trying to save.

On the other hand, I know of couples who really just were never meant to be. They divorced, amicably, and went on to find happiness with other partners.

When boyfriends and girlfriends split, we kind of expect it & accept it. We realise that they must have discovered that, for them, it wasn't meant to be forever.

However, once couples have taken the step into marriage, it is assumed that they should keep trying.

So, the question is, does this couple feel that they made a mistake in marrying?
Would they be better off as just friends ~ or even strangers?
Do they both feel the same way?

If so, then maybe it's time to call it a day.
But I am no expert, so if the couple wants to do everything they can to try to save it, then I'm guessing that marriage guidance would be a good thing to try.

Also, I would always recommend the books of John Gray to couples who want it to work, but for whom there seem always to be arguments and misunderstandings. His books (the Venus & Mars series) help explain the differences between the thought processes of men & women ~ and also what they mean when they speak and how they are interpreted when they are heard.

My husband & I rarely argue, but I used to find that we didn't always seem to understand each other's actual words. It sounds weird. We both speak the same language, after all! But men & women interpret things differently. 'Women Are From Venus & Men Are From Mars' was really useful in this area. (I also think that some women think in a more male way, & vice versa, so the books can help with all sorts of misunderstandings.) There are also other books on the subject, by other authors.

I sound as though I work for Gray & am on commission! But not at all!! I just bought some of his books & found them very interesting & useful. I'm guessing that they would be available at the library.
Here is the website:
http://home.marsvenus.com/

Jilly - yes marriage counseling really works, as long as you have a good counselor. My first husband and I went to a counselor. The truth of the matter was that we truly loved each other but had issues that we could not reconcile.

I realized at about the fifth session that my counselor was counseling for divorce and was preparing me for this eventual end to my marriage.

I continued on with counseling for about a year after I got divorced. This counseling helped me more than anything in my life. We live with so many shadows of other times and other people that sometimes we loose who we really are in those shadows. Counseling helped me realize that I wanted to find who I am. You have to remember that I spent the first 18 years of my life trying to please my parents. I spent the second 18 years of my life trying to please my spouse. I was not successful at either one. Things got so much better after I decided to please myself.

I think PDM gave a pretty extensive breakdown of what you need to ask yourself. But 3 witnesses are better than 1 I suppose.

First off, it's difficult. There's no decisive answer, and no one can tell anyone what is best. Every situation in everyone's lives is different. No one knows truly what 2 people are going through. With that being said, objective perspective help you, but I think they help you to understand and see what is really going on inside of you.

Second, if there is any doubt, I think it should be worked through. For one, you made a promise. I'm one who believes in standing by my word, it shows integrity. If you haven't got the words you speak, you have nothing. Promises shouldn't be broken unless all possibilities have been exhausted. Secondly, there's a lot at stake. Divorce is difficult, a lot of people get hurt in the process including yourself.

Now. How do you know when to get out of it? I think you'll know. A counselor can help see what's deep down, to realize what's there. A counselor can also help with the guilt that will definitely follow, the regrets that will be there no matter how easy, smooth, and mutual the split was.

If there's children though... I'd say that makes things different. I can't give opinion to that because I haven't spawned yet.

I will say though, that there was a period with me and my husband where we pushed every button we had. Purposefully and spitefully. No lie, this went on for a year straight. It was terrible. There was resentment, hatred, anger, and very bad words exchanged. Things were dug up that shouldn't have been, and there was a lot of pain.

It took us breaking up for me to realize that what we were doing was wrong. That we really loved each other, we were just going through a trial battle of the wills. We only stayed apart for a week! Neither of us could take it. We've been happy ever since. But I don't think we'd have been there if we didn't split first, and take a step back.

With that said... maybe a split before a definite divorce is best?

These are excellent questions, all, and I am so appreciative you took the time to lay things out for me. I have been giving this thread a great deal of thought.

We've had two long periods of separation, Nikki. It didn't really help when we got back together - we pick up right where we left off, even if six months ago.

No kids; we don't have any interest in them. The pets are mine.

I have no idea how to find a counselor we could afford. There seem to be some inexpensive online ones, and there is a free telephone Christian one (we are not religious). That's about as far as i have got so far.

The meditating each day for five minutes together seems to be helping. Also relieving my anxiety with atavan is a big help for us - letting me just not care enough about things to get worked up or argue.

I will have to take another look at the mars and venus books. I think i have them in storage in CA (which we will be emptying out this january).

I do want to give this marriage every chance i can, but i also know this is our last effort. Neither of us want to continue this anymore if things don't change for the better.

I'm curious how you feel about this, now that some time has passed. Do you feel differently about the situation?

Strangely enough, things have been really good since I had that anxiety attack (not long after my last post in this thread, in fact).

I'd never had one before and it was confusing to both me and dan. He was great though - he sat there with me on the bed, stroked my legs and held my hand. It was so unlike him to be so gentle and caring in the face of an emotional display.

Since that time i feel like some kind of long-term wall fell down. I feel like I can trust him somehow, in a way I couldn't before. He says I am acting different, more pleasant...but it's because I feel he showed something inspiring, something I could respect in him. It's hard to explain. It's made a huge difference.

It is sad that you had the anxiety attack - but it is very good that something good resulted from it.

I was married for 17 years and have 2 beautiful children that kept it going for a lot of those years. How long do you keep going? That is a question that only the two of you can answer.

I have a very long story to tell if you want to hear it. It will illustrate how things can develope and change in the blink of an eye which can change your life in ways you never thought possible. It will be a long story to write...but I will if you're interested.

MArko

Marko, I would be interested to hear your story if you are willing to share!

I feel like I can relate to what you are saying. I know that with my first husband if I could have had an experience like that, and if it would have come out like that; it would have made a huge difference in my feelings about our relationship. May I suggest that what you felt was loved. Sometimes our relationships get to the point that you don't even know that what you need is to feel loved.

You know what? I think you are absolutely right. How weird that I can't even interpret feeling loved.

That kind of blows me away. I guess it's been so long since I really felt that, deeply, inside.

Okay...

First off, I will not be worrying too much about grammer on this one because it's just too big. I'll just bang away and get it out.

I was married for 17 years to a great woman. We had two children and achieved a nice, comfortable middle class income in one of the most desirable areas of Canada. We were in our early 40's when things went wrong.

Susan and I were most likely a mis-match from the start. Our sex life was never great from the beginning, but I had decided that that may not be such a bad thing. I had several relationships before Susan (one 5 years long) where sex was always amazing. I decided that sex may not be that important considering that all relationships prior to Susan had ended in failure. I rationalized that sex wasn't the most important ingredient in keepinf two people together.

Susan and I married...started a life together...had children and lived a pretty nornal life.

Susan and I had our ups and downs like everyone else I suppose. We had times of great closeness and times when we couldn't stand one another. Pretty much standard I think.

We had three occassions where Susan wanted to split. I kept things together - or convinced her to - for the kids. I thought it best to keep our family together. And with time, things always worked out.

In 2007 we were living in an amazing area in the Okanagan in British Columbia. We had our dream house, nestled in among the vineyards surrounded by mountains. It was perfect. And...we were probably the happiest we had ever been.

Then things went wrong.

Susan befriended our son's teacher, Collette. Our families began to socialize quite a bit. We usually had food and wine as a component of our gatherings and things were usually quite festive. Things were awesome!

Eventually, Collette began to flirt with me. This was totally unexpected by myself, but I was totally taken in by her. Collette was an exceptionally beautiful brunette with big brown eyes and she was perfect in my eyes. She was very intelligent, charasmatic and sexy. I had always admired her, but never thought much beyond that.

Anyway...she began to flirt with me and things escalated over time. We developed very strong feelings for one another. Yet...we never persued things beyond an emotional affair.

Eventually, Susan found out about this and decided to pull the plug on our marriage. I can't blame her for her decision. SHe was right to do this because I betrayed her. I betrayed our family. Her decision was just.

That's what it looks like from the outside anyway. But that was three years ago, and I have had a long time to consider things and try to put things into perspective.

Susan and I were not truely happy with our relationship ever. That's the truth. We decided to take the high road and stay together for the kids and for our lifstyle. We managed to keep it together for 17 years.

After our divorce, we both moved back to Ontario. It isn't anywhere as nice as BC. It's pretty gross actually. But...here we are.

Since our split, I have lost my mom and brother (my last remaining family). I have folded my business and now work for someone else. I have lost my house and am claiming bankruptcy.
Life has gone in the toilette.

After Susan and I split, I went on a wild sexual rampage and had a really great time. I met a lot of amazing women and learned about what I had been missing in a 17 year marriage without passion and sexual closeness. It's a huge thing to live without.

I have suffered and my kids have suffered a lot too. Susan has as well. I wouldn't do it again if I had the chance, but it happened and there's not too much I can do to change that.

Life will get better I believe. But, things can change so fast. Think about what you have and if you want to lose it.

I just started a new job about 6 weeks ago, before that I had been let go from my previous job in March of 2009, struggled to find a new job and ended up with a temp job that was supposed to turn perm after 6 months... the 6 months came and went, and then I found my current job.

My husband has been miserable with his job for over a year and a half now - really down in the dumps, not interested in doing anything which includes working out, meeting people, having fun, etc. I have tried to encourage him to get out and do things, find a new job, etc. but none of that has worked. I told him i thought he was depressed, because I know what it feels like and looks like to be depressed (I've been there and seeked counseling that really helped me out) - but he told me he didn't need that.

Needless to say, things have been rough for us over the past year or two. I turned to drinking when I lost my job and almost lost control - trying to get a hold of that now - but still run into problems when things get too hard for me to control - like now. My new job requires me to travel around the world. I had my first trip 2 weeks ago - I was gone for 15 days... and I loved it. and I can't wait to get back out on the road. This bothers him, along with the fact that I said my job might take me places around the world if any advancement opportunities arise in the future. I told him I was considering it as a possibility down the road. Again - he didnt like that.

Ugh - I don't know where to even start. I don't think I'm in love with him anymore. We've been together 11 years and I'm only 28. I don't know if I made the right decision. I don't feel like we're on the same page anymore and we've tried talking about things, but I have a feeling it's too late. I've been the hold up with kids and with me wanting to travel and maybe move out of the country for work that just puts things farther back - kids wise. I need some input - I will provide additional details if questions are asked.

Welcome to the forum. Hope we can help you sort thru this.

You have got to figure out what you want. Do you want this marriage to work? What if you suddenly lost your wonderful job you have now?

How much did drinkng have to do with the 15 days that you loved? Sorry blunt question but I know where you are coming from.

Did you ever love you husband and why? Do you have the courage and strength to stand by him while he sorts out his life?

Mem usually don't "need" counseling until their life blows up in their face. Then they feel the counselor is bias.

Do you want kids, ever. Does he want kids. Just wondering if this is an issue.

Sorry I didn't have any input, just questions.

Hi MW1
Welcome to the forum.
I hope that we shall be able to help.

I have started a completely new thread for your concerns. Hopefully you may get more input there.

Here it is:
New Job/Depressed Husband , Marriage/Future/Kids?
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/396906#Post396906

I have quoted your post there and also BLR's response.

This forum and its members (removed)!

Marko, I am sorry you feel that way. I hope I didn't offend you.

Argyll - I'm confused, why are you upset?

MW1 had questions - we attempted to answer them.

You did not have questions, you posted a story for others to learn from. We read your story.