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Things are coming apart and I would really like to get into marital counseling before it's the end. I'm just concerned about the cost and how to find one. Does anyone know how much sessions run for psychologists?

Hello Niki

I am really sorry ~ and surprised ~ to hear this.

As I live in the UK, I have no idea about prices over there, but I know that relationship counselling can be very helpful for some people, and I really wish you well.

Yeah - surprise, surprise. Seems me changing is too much of a change and I'm not the woman he married. Besides that, he says he lost faith because of me and I can't have that on my conscience. I lost faith because of me, no one else. If I'm causing him crises, and unhappiness than this can't continue.

Would like some input on prices and helpfulness if anyone knows though.

I actually started this topic while heavily drinking, I'll admit, so I don't remember my intentions.

Everyone loses faith by themselves, for themselves. Other people can encourage them to question the way they think, but they cannot make them change their beliefs.

I wanted to say something else.

My Mum & Dad were starting to plan their silver wedding, when he died quite suddenly, 11 years ago. They had become engaged when they were 22 ~ just a few weeks after meeting. They were always together from then on ~ people joked that they were joined at the hip. They loved going dancing, taking long walks in the hills and by the seaside, going off in their caravan ~ they even took up camping in their 60s!

My Dad was an agnostic, who bordered very closely on atheism ~ and he was extremely critical of the Roman Catholic Church.

My Mum is a Roman Catholic with strong faith.

I cannot say that there were no arguments, because they were (often when other people got involved), but they loved each other and remained devoted to each other, regardless.

Differences in religious opinion and belief do not have to destroy a marriage ~ but they can test it. I know that.

One's beliefs are in one's heart, but love resides there, too, and love can conquer all.

There is a hymn which begins: 'God is Love'.
If God is love, then love is God.
If one accepts that, then it should not matter what else one does or does not believe.

Good luck!

Thanks. It would be better if it felt that way - so happy. But I feel hated, and more time than not he's angry at me.

It's complicated though, as usual. He's going to leave for a week tomorrow, and we'll try to work things out then.

It may be that he is angry at the situation, rather than at you. He may feel frustrated, lost, confused, impotent, etc. That is a difficult situation for a husband to be in.

Try reading some of the books on behaviour within relationships ~ eg the 'Venus and Mars' books. They really can be eye-openers and I believe that they can help couples to communicate better and increase harmony. They helped me to be better at communicating and comprehending. They are probably available in libraries.

http://home.marsvenus.com/

I feel sad that the ideas that you have developed ~ partly on here ~ are causing you pain.

Nikki, are things better at all? have you found counselling? I have always wanted to try marriage counselling. it seems everyone in the movies does it, but i don't know any actual people who do it. I always feel it would be helpful.

Hoping things have improved for you both.

I know people who have tried it ~ with good results.

It's gotten worse. We've separated and pretty much completely disintegrated.

I still want to do counseling, but don't know if I can afford it or if the health insurance with cover it. I haven't looked too much into it... I really should.. It's just been very hard lately.

Part of me is thrilled and feeling... free for the first time in my young life. I blame this separation on myself. Every since losing my religion I've had so many regrets for not living my life and marriage was half terrifying me and half making me hate myself for not being the woman he married.

Erg...

But yeah. I should at least do counseling for myself, if not couple's counseling. Separation and divorce is no easy thing.

Nikki, I am sorry things are so hard right now. If you can find counseling - if only for yourself - that can surely be a help.

Niki - the husband and I went through a similar thing back in March/April of this year. We went to counseling even though the husband was VERY against it in the beginning. With my insurance, the cost per session was $50. She met first with us both, then with us individually and then every month or couple of weeks together.

When I moved out, I was thrilled and excited too - thinking that I was finally free and I could do whatever I wanted, but ultimately I found that I could be happy without my husband, but I was happier with him and that I wanted to be with him.

Things happen in a marriage - sometimes they can be repaired, sometimes they can't. In my situation, I was able to determine what was truly the issue and I worked through that on my own. My husband and I also worked through our issues together and will continue to work with one another.

I'm so sorry you are going through this right now, I know it can be very difficult and I wish you the very best. I hope what happens in the end is what is meant to be and will make you happiest.

Re the counseling again - I have been going to individual counseling for years - probably going on 4 years now. We got a separate marriage counselor, recommended to me by my individual counselor. I continued to go to individual counseling in addition to the marriage counseling - to me the money spent was worth it because no only am I working on myself, but I was working on my marriage - trying to determine what the root cause was and trying to determine if it could be fixed/helped...

I still continue to go to individual counseling because I find that it helps to talk about things. We have also decided to continue to go to the marriage counseling - once every couple of months just to check in and make sure we're still doing what we said we'd do.

I really need to actively look for a counselor here. This thread is making it clear to me that it's important if I want to reach my goals in life and be happy.

Nikki, do you have an update?

$50 a session? =( *sigh* Well the lady who told me she'd get back to me with a recommended counselor... never got back to me. And I see my doctor for a full physical in a few weeks. Been having breathing problems for 9 months. Finally stopped smoking. But it's scaring me to be honest.

Anyway... I don't know. It keeps getting worse and I keep getting stronger and falling apart further more and more. Every time we try to make it work, we make it worse. We've slept together twice and it's been disastrously cold and... just plain terrible. I end up feeling used and unsatisfied.

Plus being "single" has been nice. I've enjoyed having men look at me again and being asked out for lunches and being... well flattered for who I am. Atheist and narcissistic crazy lady and all.

But on second hand it's crushing me. A break up is a break up, you move on, but divorce feels deeper and a lot more painful. Like half of my heart is missing. All I do anymore is spend my nights at home drinking which is very counterproductive to my schooling. Part of me is marching through this with my head held high, and the other is on the verge of jumping in front of the next bus.

Doesn't help that I have another thing for my family to hate me for. First turning my back on God, now my husband. It hasn't been easy at all.

Hi

I am so pleased to hear that you are sorting things out.

Hi:)
A good counsellor can be really really helpful, but a poor one can make things worse, I think, so be careful to find one you can trust

That is definitely a positive!



I am so sorry to hear this. You seemed so happy together ~ I find it so hard to understand how religion can get between people who love each other, but it seems that it can.

I wish you all the luck that you need to sort yourselves out and I wish for a happy result in all of this

$50/session might seem like a lot, but for the outcome it was far cheaper than not figuring out what the problems were, losing him, my life with him, our future children, all the bumps and ups and downs in the road we'd encounter, etc... that and all the costs associated with divorce. I'm not saying I'm against divorce, but I am against just "giving up" because it's "easier than working at it." I think you have to try to work through things and figure out how to make things work first before saying lets just end this. I'm definitely not saying that's what you're doing or what other people have done that have gotten a divorce, I'm just saying it because of my own experience with my husband. I say this because I initially thought when I separated from my husband that it'd just be easier to give up and move on, but then seeing my grandfather at my grandmother's funeral made me think about the commitment we made to one another; the commitment to stick together through thick and thin, etc. My grandparents marriage wasn't perfect by any means, but they loved one another for who they were regardless of one another's "flaws," if you want to call it that - I like to refer to that as "character."

Counseling helped my husband and I greatly even though in the beginning he was digging his heels in the ground - to him, he saw counseling as "giving up" and admitting our marriage wasn't "perfect" when in reality there's never really a marriage that can be defined as "perfect." We found that the counseling really helped and after I moved back in we both agreed that continuing the counseling was a good idea - we aren't going to go as frequently as before, but every couple of months didn't seem like a bad idea and to be honest is worth the money. Individual counseling to me is also worth it, but I definitely agree you have to find the right one - I've gone through several and have finally found the right one - it took years but was worth it and is still worth it; every time I go I leave feeling better, even if I wasn't necessarily down to begin with.

If you can't afford counseling, at least consider getting some books. I bought some in addition to doing the marriage counseling and some of them helped, some of them didn't, but they all got me thinking... I've listed them below.
1. "Contemplating Divorce : A Step-by-Step Guide to Deciding Whether to Stay or Go" by Susan Pease Gadoua
2. "Marry Him : The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough" by Lori Gottlieb
3. "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus : The Classic Guide to Understanding the Opposite Sex" by John Gray - making the husband read this one too - it's on his assigned reading because I felt like it was so helpful!!
4. "Finding Self Finding Love" by David Robert Ord

There's another one that I've got at home, but I can't remember the title of it - I'll have to give that to you later. Try out the books, maybe get some different ones - I was just looking through them online and it looks like they've got ones on there that help out in dealing with differences in religion - they might be helpful.

I understand the way your feeling - that feeling of "single." It's great to feel like you're getting noticed and seen by other men - my thought though, after going through it, is that you never weren't getting noticed or seen by other men... you probably just weren't looking for it.

Another suggestion: Hold off on the intimacy for a while - work on the relationship first. It's not going to feel right unless you guys are right and with things on the rocks you need to work through that "mess" first before you start adding this other stuff in there because when it leaves you feeling the way you described that's just going to add to the "mess."

It's great that you stopped smoking, but not so great that you started drinking - not the best way to deal with things - and believe me on that - I speak from experience there as well... I started drinking more when I lost my job last year - didn't help.

Don't give up - it hasn't been that long since you guys separated - it took me almost 5 months to work through things and they're still not perfect, but we work on them and continue to work on them. Feel free to ask me any questions you want - I'm only here to help!!

oh and you don't have to wait for someone to recommend a counselor - try searching for one and giving them a shot. If you don't like them, just try another one - they won't get upset if you don't come back and if you don't feel comfortable telling them you didn't like how you worked together, go ahead, let them schedule another appointment with you, then just call and cancel - but remember to cancel!! It can be expensive if you forget about an appointment and have to pay the full price of the missed session.

Yes ~ worthwhile reading for any couple.

See, money is really that big of an issue for me. I haven't even been able to buy my poor parakeet a decent cage after my cat broke it. I'm in debt up to my nose as it is and only having one income is making it that much more worse. I'm really drowning financially right now. And he doesn't even have a job right now to help with counseling costs, if there are any. And I really don't have the time to do it either. I'm a full time student in my senior yet and work every day I don't have class.

And... ugh it's not even just the religion change that's causing a division.. it's... I've changed everything. My outlook on life, my expectations, what I want from a marriage, what I want from a husband... It's a completely 180 degree turn.

Now there's another complicating factor. Another man who's absolutely crazy for me. And aggressively so. He's everything my husband isn't, everything I can't stand in my husband anymore he has. I know it's not fair at all. Steve is aware of it and not happy. But I don't know what to do. I am so sick of being unhappy and feeling unloved for who I am and ignored and not fought for. And this other guy is fighting so hard for me, fights to make me happy every single day and keep me going, doesn't ignore the little signs of me falling apart and... everything my husband doesn't do.

And he wants kids. Haha.... my husband doesn't and that's always been a hard point that I just can't bear to put up with anymore cause I wanted them before I was 25 and it doesn't look like that's happening now. (I know, I know, not wise if I'm not financially stable. But I was doing really good before the separation.)

*sigh*

That sounds immensely immature. Letting myself fall (rebound?) into someone else at my weakest emotional point... ugh. But Steve has no idea what to do, and neither do I. Every time we try to make it work (date, talk with a mediator present, whatever) it gets worse somehow.

Niki, perhaps you are trying too hard. Perhaps you could give yourselves and each other some space to think. Is: don't see Steve or the other chap, get on with your studies and let your head clear.

There are so many people involved in your life and what you should and should not do with it. Do you think that it might help to take a break from all of the stresses and strains and concentrate on your studies for a while.

Sleep on the other stuff and see what happens.

Easy to say, I know, but it might be worth it.

What do you think?

Niki - I'll write back this afternoon. Have to run out for a bit but promise to write back. I definitely think I have some input that could be very helpful for you!!

Niki -

Promised I would get back to you on this, so here it is.

Money - yes, counseling is expensive, but really consider the books and taking the time to read through them. You don't want to jump the gun on getting a separation/divorce and then feel like you made a huge mistake years down the road. That was what I was afraid of when I made the decision to move out/do the trial separation. Doing the trial separation also helped me out by allowing me to clear my head. Not only did I separate from my husband, but I told my family they needed to butt out too and give me some space. I told my family they needed to stop asking how my husband and I were doing, I told them I needed their support in this because it wasn't easy what I was doing and if they didn't/wouldn't support me I just cut the cord from them. Doing this, removing myself from all the stresses of my family helped me to realize that I needed the space and the distance to help me find myself and determine what I truly wanted.

You need to decide what you want, what are the deal-breakers in your current marriage if there are any (e.g. having kids). I don't think you should get involved with this other guy that's pursuing you right now - it could mess with your decision making process. When my husband and I separated, we agreed we would not date or see other people because that wasn't the intended purpose of the separation.

The first couple of months between my husband and I were very hard. We fought every time we saw one another because he didn't like that I had moved out and that I couldn't tell him flat out what I wanted, that I was second-guessing myself in making the decision to marry him. It drove him nuts that I couldn't give him an answer and I understand why it did... I had all the "power" in the decision and he was left hanging until I made up my mind and figured out what I wanted. This left him bitter every time he saw me. It's a shock to the system when you think you have what you want and you think you've got your life planned out or at least on the right track and you're with the person you want to be with, and then all of a sudden you see that life wasn't what you thought it was and that person you thought you were going to be with forever was second-guessing and wondering if the choices she made were the right ones.

I'm not going to lie - there was a guy that was pretty heavily interested in me too. And it seemed at the time that we wanted many of the same things - and he was the complete opposite of my husband. My husband was aware of it and wasn't happy either - but then again, who would be?? I found that when I stopped him from pursuing me further, I was able to work through things better and figure out things. I really do suggest you tell this guy he needs to let you figure things out in your life - from there you can decide what you'd like to do, but first you need to figure out yourself. I was in your shoes exactly: "so sick of being unhappy and feeling unloved for who I am and ignored and not fought for."

I wish you luck. Keep your chin up and keep working through the muddle. You'll eventually make your way through.

I'm pretty sure I know what I want. I definitely want kids and a man who wants them as much as I do. I always have. And I want to be loved for who I am. Even the "bad" parts because every part of me makes me who I am. I believe everyone is perfect. I don't believe in character "flaws." I don't think there is such a thing. I'm a perfect me and no one else. I can't be anyone else or act any different and I refuse to do so to make someone happy.

Steve's said flat out he doesn't like how I treat him. And I've told him many times this has come with my change in morals and values. I've changed what I think a wife should be. I'm not bound by this Christian stereotype of faithful doting wife anymore. I'm my own person. I don't think I should treat my husband with respect just because he's my husband, he's gotta deserve it and if he screws up I'll let him know it. I'd expect him to do the same with me, not pussyfoot around things and be all gentle and passive. That's not how I want to live.

And he can't stand it. He calls it "railing on me, and tearing me down." And yeah, I understand the whole love languages thing, and men are from Mars thing... but Steve's Steve and I'm myself and it seems pretty clear that our love languages do not match up, nor can without changing who we are. And I like who I am, and do not like what he wants me to be.

And MW1, you two may have agreed to not see other people, but us when we discussed separation we decided we should see other people. It's what I wanted. He doesn't want it, but I want him to and I want to myself. We already laid down the ground rules that we would not want to know what the other person is doing with whoever their seeing. No details. One of the basis of our separation was believing that there's a better person out there for both of us. So seeing other people fits into that.

With that being said I still want him to do things I know he won't, and be who I know he can't be. And it's terrible. I should've seen that from the beginning and just not been with him. I've always wanted him to want kids as badly as I do, and always wanted him to be more aggressive than he is. But that's not him. He doesn't like children, never has, and he's always been passive. That's just who he is. And we keep fighting because I keep trying to push him to be who I want him to be, and he does the same with me.

It's a train wreck, to be honest.

I would put all this madness on hold for my studies, but that would be contrary to my value system. What is a career and money and education without love? Without passion? It's useless to me. And not how I want to live my life. I'm an impulsive one, and I enjoy living like that. So I don't think I can push these two men aside for my studies, even though it would help me focus. I would just be unhappy and unhappiness is not condusive to learning.

I'm sorry for everything you're going through. Sounds like you know what you want and where you want to go. I leave you with a couple of thoughts:

1. You say you want to be loved for who you are, even the "bad" parts. Everyone wants this and I believe that a marriage between two people is an acceptance and loving of the other for who they are, flaws, perfections, and all. I saw this video a while ago and it reminded me of my husband's and my relationship, it made me think of my grandparents and how much they used to complain about the other person... but in the end that's one of the endearing characteristics they loved about one another. Click on the link to see the video - brings a tear to my eye every time I watch it. Big Geek Daddy - Family/Inspirational

2. You say you've changed what you think a wife should be and that you're not bound by the Christian stereotype of a faithful doting wife. This is fine, just try to remember what it was that made you want to marry your husband. What initially drew you to him and think about spending your life with him. Also remember that everyone changes; changes their mind, changes how they react to certain things, etc. Change is a part of our nature, it's a good thing and it can be a bad thing. You have to expect things to change - you can't always assume things will always be what they have been. That was something both I and my husband got caught up in - he expected that I wouldn't change, and I expected that he would change and we didn't communicate this with one another, therefore leading to resentment towards one another. Counseling helped us figure this out and figure out a way to healthily discuss these concerns/issues with one another. Side note: I remember going through the required marriage counseling before my husband and I got married - I thought it was crazy some of the passages they made us read and contemplate on. The way we behave in our marriage might not be bound to the Christian stereotype, but it's what works for us.

3. He says he doesn't like the way you treat him. I'm guessing this treatment stems from your belief that you don't think you should treat him with respect just because he's your husband and that he needs to deserve it and that if he screws up you'll let him know it. I'm not saying I know how you treat him or if you treat him disrespectfully, but there are ways of letting someone know they've done something that has bothered you in a respectful manner, even if you don't think they are very deserving of that respect at the time.

4. You say you'd expect him to do the same with you regarding not treating you with respect if you don't deserve it and that if you screw up you want him to tell you. I do think you should treat others the way you'd like to be treated - if you're mean and hurtful to him and he responds and treats you in the same manner (because this is what you want), then maybe this could be what is leading to your feelings of being unloved and unwanted because that's the way he is feeling.


Going into a separation you need to agree on how things are going to be. Your goal in your separation was: "One of the basis of our separation was believing that there's a better person out there for both of us. So seeing other people fits into that." My goal was to figure things out - it's just a difference in the meanings and goals of our separation. Glad you spelled it out in the beginning for the both of you.


Try to take a step back. When I say you need to figure out what you want, I mean:

1. Do you want to work on your marriage?

2. Do you want to make amends with your husband?

3. Do you want to fight to make it work? Do you BOTH want to fight to make it work? If one of you wants it and the other one doesn't, is the one that wants it willing to fight even harder to make it work? (Example: in the beginning of my separation, I didn't want to make it work, I wasn't willing to put forth the effort. But my husband was willing to make it work - he fought for it. I told him the things that really bothered me and he started working on them. I saw how hard he was trying and I saw the man I fell in love with and this made me want to work at our marriage too - so instead of it just being one person that was working, making changes, it became a team. We spoke openly about things that bothered one another and we worked to change them and make them better. BUT - you can't expect the change to occur overnight - it takes time. Things still haven't completely changed for my relationship, but they're a work in progress as will be yours if you choose to try and make it work.)

4. Is having kids before you're 25 a deal-breaker if it won't happen? (Example: My husband has been ready for kids for a long time, but I haven't been... so we agreed to wait. I initially wanted to have kids within 3 years of graduating from college but I wasn't where I wanted to be career-wise at that point, so we pushed it off another 2 - 3 years. Then I lost my job, so we pushed it off until I found another one, but with that we had to wait a little while so my job would be covered under the FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act - which states your job is protected if you're there a year before you leave for maternity/paternity leave - basically). Then we ran into marital issues, and having kids in the midst of all that would have been a DISASTER. Now that we've moved back in together and we're comfortable with where we are both emotionally and financially, we're talking about kids seriously. I'm 29... I graduated when I was 21... meaning that I wanted to start having kids by the time I was 24, 5 years later it's finally going to happen (starting to try - doesn't mean it's going to happen immediately). When we started the separation, I said I didn't want kids anymore - but the reason I said this was because I thought it would make it easier to end things with my husband, not that I truly believed it. If I ultimately decided that I really didn't want kids, my husband told me it was a deal-breaker and that we wouldn't get back together. I was only saying those things to hurt him and to push him farther away from me - I wasn't saying it because I believed it, I was saying it because I was looking for the easy way out of the marriage if I needed one. - Again, this is just a side note on one of my experiences - might be helpful to you, might not.)


I'm not trying to be preachy, I'm not trying to be pushy. I'm just trying to tell you what I went through and how it helped me. Do what you need to do and what you think you should do - just keep an open mind to other ideas. Just because one person planted a seed in your head that maybe there are better people out there for you, doesn't mean it's necessarily true, but it also doesn't mean there aren't multiple people in this world that are good for you or that your husband isn't one of those people that's good for you.

Good luck with your studies, with things going in such a manner that will ultimately make you happiest - I truly hope you find it because I know how important happiness is to people.

And remember, Niki, that it's not Steve's fault that you have changed your mind about lots of things.

And everyone deserves to be spoken to with kindness, and not with harshness, even if there is a disagreement going on ~ especially if they are confused and hurting.

This must be like an emotional earthquake for your husband.

I am intrigued by what you believe that Christianity expects from a wife and atheists do not ~ and what you no longer think is acceptable for a wife.

And I wish you both well.

Don't forget how much you told us you loved him. Isn't thiis worth fighting for?


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That's not helping me right now at all.

It's very easy to recall how I used to feel. But it makes it worse because I do not feel that way. I'm the one who doesn't want this to work and doesn't feel anything for him. All being reminded of how happy I was makes me more miserable realizing just how miserable I am now! I don't feel anything for him. Not a thing. I'm stone hard and hurt and it hasn't changed a bit in these 3 months.

Only you can decide what you want and need to do, but he was on the receiving end of those emotions, so, if it is really over, then let him know firmly ~ but kindly.

Three months of not feeling anything is a relatively short time-period considering you all have been together for 3 years. Just be sure you are positive in your choice because once you make that final decision, it's really hard to turn back.

Honestly - PDM's suggestion on remembering how much you loved him isn't a bad one. When I separated from my husband at first I wanted absolutely nothing to do with him... BUT when I moved out, I took all our old photo albums, all the old letters he had written me, all those old memories. It hurt when I first started looking at them because I thought I wanted nothing to do with those memories, I thought I wanted to forget all that time I had spent with him. It might not hurt to think about those times again even though you say it doesn't help.

I do have a question for you - you say you hurt... where does it hurt? and why does it hurt?

I think everyone has good advice. Make space for yourself, but don't burn your mental bridges either. Give yourself time to grieve and let the pain pass through you.

Long story short, but a quick update: We are getting counseling. Problem is, NY insurance does not cover divorce counseling. So.. I don't know how it's going to go and what we're going to go ahead and do. We both have the same thing in mind, we don't want a counselor who is looking to force the relationship to work at all costs.

I'm not sure what the real goal of the counseling will be, I just know that I need help. I've come to the realization that my personal life changes has caused a complete destruction of my support systems and that this has become a major contributor to my confusion. I literally have no one to go to. Friends and family are all fairly judgmental of me and can not permit divorce under such "trivial" differences such as irreconcilably differences ( as Steve has coined them...).

I hit a wall pretty hard. Me and Steve had a fight, to which the new love interest, Brad, was witness of. I broke down and ended up hurting both of them with my words. I went to bed, re-called Steve and asked him if he thought I was insane for going with another man like I am. I felt like I was having a complete mental break down, so we decided that, even if I didn't go with Brad, that we desperately needed counselling to make sure we can get through this divorce (or whatever it becomes) with our sanity and emotions as intact as possible.

On a side note...

I'm going to Israel for 2 weeks in January. I had considered canceling it and using the money for counseling... but everyone is telling me that for my own well-being and happiness (being it something I've always wanted to do) and for my education advancement, I need to go. I'm looking forward to it as my own personal journey and self-examining experience.

I think that a good counsellor could help, whatever you decide to do. Good luck with this

A good counselor should be able to talk to the both of you and help you determine where you'd like your relationship to go. If he/she sees that the relationship isn't going to work he/she should be able to counsel you both in the direction of separation/divorce. He/she should be of assistance to you both individually and as a couple.

What about calling it marriage counseling instead of divorce counseling. Maybe they'll cover it then??

One of the things my husband and I found out how to successfully do through our counseling was talking to the other person when they were doing something that was bothering us. As the other person receiving the "talking to" we learned how to control our frustrating with being told we were doing something that annoyed/bothered the other person. This was something we had never really learned to do throughout our entire relationship - except for maybe the first 2 months we were dating... which was about 11.5 years ago.

In short, I hope the counseling helps you. I know going to the individual and couples counseling has really helped both me and my husband.

On your side note - I think it's great that you're still going to go to Israel. When I lost my job, my husband and I considered cancelling our trip to Europe because money was tight, but ultimately we decided that getting away and doing something we both had planned on doing for such a long time (since before we gradutated from college - and it'd been 5 years since we graduated from colleg) was a great idea and that we'd make the sacrifice of dipping into our savings.

Good luck with everything!!

Wednesday is our first orientations session. She sounded like a nice lady, entertaining British accent (I love accents). We'll see how that goes, although she wasn't certain out type of insurance would cover or what kind of co-pay we'd be paying.

What's more nerve wracking is that we're seeing my best friend's parents this coming Friday. Sounds weird, but they'be been in my life since I was 5 and they're like second parents to me. Almost like the caring parents I wish I had (my mom just gives me the "where did we go wrong in raising you?" attitude, she actually asked me that straight out too..). I'm pretty nervous. They still think I'm a Christian and had raised me as a sweet little christian girl all my life. I'm pretty terrified of destroying that image of me in their eyes. But... we'll see how that goes.. They say they just want to be a listening ear and support us/me. So.. yeah.

Fun times all around! We'll see how it goes.

Even more interesting is Brad is hoping/trying his hardest to get off of work so he can be with me during my family gatherings. We do consider ourselves an "item" and the family Thanksgiving dinner is going to be impossibly hard for me. I don't want to go alone have to answer the millions of questions.

When you say "we're seeing my best friend's parents" do you mean you and Steve? I think it's good that you'll see them since they want to be there for you. Hopefully that will go along smoothly - you'd be surprised at how open and accepting people can be once you're honest with them. I'm sorry your mother has said those things to you - I wish I could just shake her and tell her to support her daughter even if she might not agree with all your choices as it's not for her to judge.

Hopefully in your meeting you and Steve can start to decide what you'd like to get out of the counseling and you both can start to move forward, either together or separately.

Having Brad come with you to family functions could just complicate things even more despite you wanting to introduce him and him wanting to meet everyone. Might be something you want to think about holding off on until you certain on where you and Steve stand (which could be after one meeting with the counselor or after several - it took my husband and I several meetings to figure things out and several meetings resulted in a few months, meaning Thanksgiving is about a month away and that might not be enough time). I guess you could always just go to Brad's family for the holidays - that might make things a little easier on you.

I do have one question though - if you and Brad consider yourselves an "item" why are you and Steve going to counseling? It sounds to me like you've already made up your mind to move on in separate directions? Just asking.

Good luck on Wednesday - it's nothing to be afraid of, or nervous about - it's supposed to help and hopefully it will!

I did make up my mind about Steve and us. Counseling is more for my, and our, sanity. Although I do have my mind made up, it doesn't mean it's easy. It doesn't mean there are days I break down and don't know or can't be sure. I've realized I'm holding on to Steve for all the wrong reasons (I'm lonely, don't want to lose memories, etc) but I still can't shake it some days.

That and I want to make sure I'm okay. Like I said, I have no support systems anymore. If anything, it'll be good to get stuff out of my head and have someone else evaluate it and see if I'm being irrational or if there's some method to my madness. Part of me is awfully frightened that I'm just having a mental break down. I've had a lot of stresses in my life, it's scary. This marriage and my changes seem to be a very large straw that could very easily break this camel's back.

Yes, Steve and I are seeing my friend's parents together. We're all having dinner together, and talking by the fireplace at their lake house. Nice relaxing setting.

And... yeah.. FML. Another stressor and sign that if there is a God, He surely hates me or wants to see me have a break down - my car broke down and is most likely done for. Meaning I'm not going to Israel, and meaning I'm going to be having Hell for quite a while. Good part is I'll have the money I was going to spend on Israel to get myself a new car and have more financial security, bad news is I miss out on the trip (this year... always next I guess).

Talking to someone will definitely help you. I am sorry that you and Steve seem to be done - I know it's probably painful but I'm sure it will get easier as the time passes.

Sorry about your car and not being able to go to Israel this year. It's good you're trying to stay positive though - saying that you'll have more financial security and you can always go next year to Israel.

Bad things usually happen in 3's - hopefully you're near to that integral and then you'll have some relief for a while.

I, too, am sorry about what has happened to you and Steve. I hope that you can, at least, remain friends and that the counselling may help with that.

I hate to be a broken record .. but www.marriagebuilders.com saved my marriage. Please consider it and its FREE resources before you waste money on counselling. I tried counselling with my wife .. and all it does is rehash problems and cause more resentment. Traditional marriage counselling has 85% failure rate becasue they do NOT know how to restore love when your love banks for eachother are in the RED. You can fall in love with anyone if your top emotional needs are met. Make sure you know what they are (marriagebuilders has some questionairs you can print out to discover them) so you can relay them to your spouse and exchange printouts so you can begin healing and restoring your love ... it seems difficult at first but believe me .. when your down a road to doing anything to recover your marriage .. its worth it and is far more effective than counselling .. and cheaper too!

... Well, uh, already paid for the counseling. Did about 5-6 sessions now. Some with just me, some with him.

Either way, it's over. And I'm devastated and trying to find a way to rebuild my life. So this topic isn't relevant any longer.

Thanks though.

Take care

I'm sorry you've gone through this - I know how difficult it can be. My thoughts and best wishes are with you.

I am sooo sorry. If you have time ... or are even still with your husband and have any thought or hope of reconsiliation ... please consider marriagebuilders .. you may be surprised how it can turn your marriage around, even if your seperated.

I am sorry for your situation. My prayers go out for you. There is a great support group over there that can guide you or help you on their discussion forum. AND many are or have been in your shoes.

Yeah, talk to him about it cause I can't handle the back and forth anymore. I'll file for divorce as soon as I can get the money and emotional energy to do so.

Best wishes are appreciated. I'm taking care of myself just fine. Already in an online support group. I'll make it through.

Thanks again though.

Best wishes making it through this difficult time. hugs!