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What are your thoughts on this topic? If your spouse/partner cheats do you forgive and forget? Yes much would depend on the age here I'm sure.

Is there such a thing as 'male menopause' when males seem to try and rediscover their youth with younger women?

This has recently happened to a neighbour, she's in her 40's and been married for 18 years. He's recently been on a holiday to the Philippines and had 'a great time' which involved girls younger than his daughter and son. The wife had a breakdown because in her words 'how do I compete against a girl younger than my own children'.

What is it with men (I'm just using this scenario as an example) that they find the need to reach out to younger women? Is it that they're afraid of growing old? What about the women they leave behind? Do they stop to think of the hurt inflicted?

What are your thoughts.

Cheating no matter what age you are is wrong. If you choose to persue a relationship with some-one you do so because you want to be with that person and that person ALONE. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

I understand of course that often our hearts and minds conflict. I know that people who seen secure and happy in relationships find they have feelings for some-one else. It happens, it's human nature. You cannot choose who you fall in or out of love with. But that does not give you cause to persue your desires.

I see no problem however in breaking off a relationship for some-one else if and only if you have worked your hardest to make your present relationship work but you just can't save it. There's no point in being unhappy. Although I would perhaps wait a while before openly persuing a new relationship.

Why is it though that it often seems so much more 'acceptable' for a woman to see another man or leave her marriage for another or to start up a new relationship soon after a split than for a man to do so? If she leaves him its 'well she deserved better' or ' she's better off without him' etc etc. Yet when he leaves its 'how selfish of him?' or ' that poor woman , how could he?' or 'I'll bet he was cheating on her' etc etc. Why? Are men not as entitled to happiness as women?

Relations of mine are in the process of divorcing and he has since met and is now living with a new woman. But he is looked down on for it because he leaves behind a wife and three daughters.Yet the marriage was over long ago and they only remained under the one roof for the sake of the children. They were thoroughly miserable for years.

They split up for a while but tried to make another go of it. However it was a lost cause. So he broke away moved out and began a new life. He moved to a different county, got a new job, met new people. And now he is in a good relationship with a good woman who makes him happy. So why should he not be happy now he has a new life in which his daughters are of course involved?

What's with it with men? Or with women?

There are bad apples among both.

IF a man or a woman is going to seek "romance" outside the marriage, then chances are it will be with someone attractive.

At a smorgasbord, one usually chooses the dishes which are attractive and desirable.

Men see women who too often choose the types of guys that men know are abusers or cheats. And women see men who look for the shallow attributes.

But thankfully, it is not universal.

My soul mate is the same age as I. My first wife was 6 months older than I, and my second wife (after 21 years with the first) of only about a year's duration was 2 years older.

For those men who seek out "more satisfying" relationships, do they think about the hurt they are causing? Marge says that men don't think that well when the blood to the brain is diverted to another part of the anatomy. There is some truth to that.

Do they pay, afterwards? A lot of times, yes. Can they be forgiven? Usually not. Will they be a better husband to another woman? Sometimes yes.

I was, and I am. I am lucky - more so than I deserve. But you know what, I have forgiven myself.

Good for you Carl! You are is enititled to happy as anyone else and I can see Marge has made you that. That's what counts here. I don't agree with cheating but I would never begrudge anyone the chance to be happy and if that is with a different partner or new spouse so be it. Marge is a lucky woman.

Thanks, Sophie. We both are lucky, and the joy is we're so very aware of that.

I talk about her everywhere I go - both because I like to do so, and also because it shows that I am not out looking.

Of course, women know that. And it is why I have so many women friends (while not being at all blind to the charms of ALL women; I genuinely like women).

Wow Aerial. You've sure brought up a hot topic, one that will find itself a world of different thoughts & opinions, strong ones. Mine included. This is one subject that's drawn dear to my heart unfortunately, so I have a very strong opinion on cheating. I hope that I don't cause offense to someone else.

Cheating, IMO is one of the worst offenses you can commit against someone else. Why? It involves lying to oneself as well as to others & it involves a LOT of pain to ALL involved. When the D-day happens (discovery day of the affair), all parties are affected greatly, especially if there are any children involved.

Aerial wrote:
In this instance, I chose to forgive. Forgetting -- that's a whole other issue. You can NEVER forget. However, in time, w/hard work, the incident can be a memory of the past. And it doesn't hurt as much. In time, it can be looked at as something survived rather than something that's so overwhelming you can't get past it.

Sophie wrote:
I wanted to expand on this a bit, Sophie. Do you mean both partners working their hardest or just one? In most cases that I've seen, one is working hard while the other is not. The one who is not usually thinks they've "done their best" & decides to leave.

Most people do not know that there can be emotional affairs as well as physical affairs. Most people think that it is not considered "cheating" until sex is involved. That couldn't be further from the truth.

In the last part of your statement, I would go a step farther in saying that *I* think it's always best if people wait a while & work on themselves before pursuing another relationship. If people rush in, most instances will show that they carry their "baggage" onto their new relationship & most likely, that will end in failure too b/c they haven't taken the time to evaluate what they would do differently or haven't "let go" of things from the past & come in to a new relationship full of resentments & bitterness that they carry through life.

Most people do not protect their weaknesses. Most people think to themselves that they're immune from cheating b/c "they're not like that"; however, in my experience, it can happen to anyone, even the most upstanding citizen that obeys every law & dots every i. Also, most people do not form boundaries w/the opposite sex (or the same sex if the case may be ) to ensure that their weaknesses are protected. What someone may view as just a close friendship may very well turn into an inappropriate friendship given the right circumstances & it can come upon you w/o you even knowing what hit you. That's the way MOST cases of infidelity happen.

Carl wrote:
As long as you have your boundaries in place!! My husband has often said that he can relate better to women than he can men. He says quite often that "men are pigs". Maybe there's some truth in that.

They only things that I hate about cheating is that most people who do cheat are TOO stupid to protect them selves. If an individual want to go out a sleep around on there partner. Fine, but at least have enough common sense to use condoms so you are not bringing that person home a disease...

By the way if I was cheated on not do not forgive and I would never forget...

MrsJF, yours is a good, solid post. I agree with what you've said. It's obvious that we've thought a lot about the subject.

In a different direction, a woman I know went and fought for her man. Right? Wrong? They're making it work.

So did I & 3 years later we're the happiest we've ever been. The act of forgiveness goes a long way in showing people the difference between doing a bad thing vs being a bad person.

Cyn, most people I know, myself included, said the exact same thing but when it's upon you all of a sudden, especially people in a marriage, you'd be surprised at the # of those who want to save their marriage. That's the uniqueness of everyone. We each have our own limits. I thought this was one of mine. Obviously I was wrong.

If I were in that boat ...
I could probably forgive, but I would never forget, and most importantly, I would never have the same trust. Thus I don't know that I could actually make it work - forgiving and trusting 2 different things in my book.

Very true, victor. (Good to see you!!) Trust needs to be built back up again. Another lesson I learned was that you can't trust everyone 100%, no matter who they are. This is another problem I see around me. People put too much trust in someone else. Partners are not infallible. I'm one of the lucky ones. Trust was earned back, but I will never trust 100% blindly ever again in anyone, except God of course (but hey, I'll leave that for the RR forum! ).

The "forgetting" part is harder, a lot harder. No, you never forget; however, it should become a memory of the past. If it doesn't, then someone is holding onto bitterness & resentment IMO.

I agree w/the poster that said you cannot choose who you "fall in love" with; however, that being said, love itself is a choice. The "feelings" of being in love/out of love come & go, especially in a marriage but loving that person unconditionally is a choice that needs to be made.

Of course I meant that both people should work as hard as they can but surely you can agree that if they are trying and trying and it's just getting worse and worse as in the case of my relatives that the best thing for everyone's sakes is to go their separate ways? Why make yourself and your family even more miserbalt than necessary?

My relatives had a volitile relationship and although they did try hard for the sake of their girls they only made things worse by getting back together. Now they're apart she has a new job, he a new partner and both a new lease on life. Why begrudge them that?

I'm aware thought that the odd time things can work out for the best. My Mum and Dad split up for a while when I was about 2 until I was 5 although I saw him regularly. My Mum went out with amother man for while and got engaged. But for whatever reason they decided to make another go of things. That was 16 years ago. Now they are one of the happiest couples I know. They married 8 years ago and now I have a little brother who's almost 9. So yes it can work and I'm pleased to say it has.

I do think that it's wrong to cheat on one's partner. And I think that trust is one of the most important aspects of a partnership. However, how does one stop oneself falling in love with someone else, if one already has a partner?

From PDM I think you nip it in the bud and don't let it get even close to that point. It doesn't take long to see who you have chemistry with... platonic or otherwise. If you are married or in a committed relationship - I believe that if you even see the potential for "chemistry", then you treat that relationship at an arm's distance, to prevent the chance for progression. Its one thing to be in your twenties and have lots of mixed gender friendships - but my experience is that alot of those "friendships" progress to something more. Thus, I do not think it is normal once married, to allow oneself to develop a close friend of the opposite gender (or same gender if you are homosexual I guess ). Even though you may miss out on some great platonic friendships, it diverts the risk of getting entangled in something you don't want to be. I do believe you can fall in love with more than one person - which is why it can take some work to avoid that simultaneously! And as Mrs.JF mentioned - there are emotional affairs as well - and even platonic, I think if you find yourself confiding in somebody more than your spouse, or sharing too many private jokes, then you are headed for trouble.
It takes a mature person to avoid these situations. You must not allow yourself to get caught up in the moment or to enter a "friendship" blindly.

I quite agree about taking care when the chemistry is right. That is why I talk a lot about Marge. And I know that I don't have to act on the chemistry. And I think about how lucky I am in what we have together, and how changed I would be if I cheat. And how the relationship would be harmed.

Besides, not saying it is foolproof (I am just a man), but most women see me as "safe" because of my devotion to Marge and the fact that I do not have that sexual tension where I'm "looking."

I am a lucky man!

Thanks Sophie for clarifying. You've also touched on something that I think needs to be examined. Staying for the "sake of the kids". IMHO, this is absolutely not a good idea/reason to stay together. Kids eventually move out. Then what are you left w/if you haven't nurtured your marriage? Nothing. That's why you see so many couples divorcing in their 50's. Living for the kids. Staying together for the kids. It's the wrong way to do things.

I also want to clarify that I think there's a big difference between both partners actively trying to solve their differences & working hard to save their marriage vs one giving their all while the other is there in body only. When two people are trying their best to make it work & it still doesn't work, then maybe it's best if they do seperate w/o bitterness. IMHO, not all marriages were meant to be saved. However, that doesn't mean that people should give up at the first sign of trouble, which is what a lot of people do today. They go into marriage thinking, Well if it doesn't work out, we can always get divorced, instead of thinking, This is for life. Most people do not choose their partners carefully & get married way too quickly. Then when things get sour, which is bound to happen at some point during the marriage, they run to the next available person & avoid conflict rather than face those troubles, do their best to work through them & conquer them as a couple to move forward to the next journey. There's a reason why "for better or for WORSE" is in those vows. Most people do not follow through w/that though when things get rough unfortunately. I'm not saying that's what happened in your relatives case, so pease don't think that. I don't even know them, but I'm just stating what I see around me most of the time, my own experiences.

Victor, couldn't have said it better myself. Agree 100%. You've hit the nail on the head.

PDM wrote:
"I do think that it's wrong to cheat on one's partner. And I think that trust is one of the most important aspects of a partnership. However, how does one stop oneself falling in love with someone else, if one already has a partner?"

You can't.

PDM:

I would venture to guess that there are many people that have been married for a while who fall in love with someone other than thier spouse. A lot of the time, this never developes into a relationship; sometimes it is a love known only by one person, and sometimes two people keep thier love for one another burried. But, as long as it doesn't cross into physical love making, it harms nobody.

I think it is very possible to love more than one person. The question is, if you love another, is it okay to tell them how you feel?

M

At the risk of upsetting those who hate 'Big Brother', I'm going to refer back to the celebrity series last winter.

Those who watched it will know what I am talking about. For those who don't know, here's the scenario:

A number of celebrities ~ some more famous than others ~ of different ages and backgrounds, sealed in a house for three weeks, with cameras on them all the time.

One of the celebrities was a 23 year singer in a band, named Preston. Another 'celebrity', supposedly from a band, was a 22-year-old girl called Chantelle. (She wasn't really a celebrity and she won it in the end.)

Anyway, the story ...
Preston had a live-in girlfriend when he entered 'the house'. They had got as far as discussing babies, but she wasn't yet ready.

Chantelle had had a long term boyfriend but it was over & had ended unhappily. She thought that Preston was attractive but knew that he was off limits.

Preston seems to have been captivated with her from day 1 and being together 24 hours a day for three weeks they grew ever closer.

It became increasingly obvious that they were besotted with each other, but both denied it and claimed to be just friends.

When they left the house, Preston got engaged to his girlfriend, but both he and Chantelle were unhappy and desperate to see each other.

The long and the short of it is that they are now married ~ to each other.

When I watched this I was thinking about the very questions being considered on this thread. Those two were obviously mad about each other, but tried to deny it, because of Preston's partner. Yet she could never have been happy with him again, surely, knowing how close he was to another girl.


I agree that it is possible to love more than one person at a time ~ possibly in different ways ~ but you make a choice and I do feel that should stay true to that choice, but when I look at Chantelle & Preston, there is no way that I think that staying with the other girl would have been right for any of the three of them. It's just sad that someone has to suffer in cases like this.

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/showbi...on_in_love.html

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/tm_ob...-name_page.html

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/tm_ob...-name_page.html

From Argyll:
I disagree with this assertion - depending of course on one's definition of love. To me, love is alot more than the puppy love of teens, or lust that may be the predominant feeling early in a relation. To me, not to be too hokey here, love is much more about intimate trust, companionship, a promise to grow old together, a true union - in which all decisions and considerations are made in terms of what is best for the union, not what is best for one individual. So to me - avoiding love is easy - because it entails a progression of a relationship. Sure - lots of married people find other people attractive, intriguing, desirable .. alot of those are natural feelings that cannot be helped. But going down that road, trying to get to know that "other" individual a little better - that is a big mistake that is clearly avoidable in my mind.

Argyll again: Again I disagree - and perhaps this has as much to do with definitions as anything. Using my definition above, love involves an enormous emotional committment - more of a "melding" of two individuals - so falling in love with another individual outside of marriage - even just "emotionally" and not physically, is still a huge breech of the love "contract" in my book. Trust is not just about trusting your partner to not have a physical affair - its about trusting your partner to be emotionally committed to the marriage - its about having no questions or doubts about your partner's motive or inner thinking. So if somebody finds themselves emotionally in love - which is not just looking at somebody and finding them attractive - but actually confiding in somebody, sharing inner thoughts with somebody outside of marriage - that is a big violation in my book - and certainly is a red flag about the state of the marriage.

gotta go - football on.

I think when we're speaking of married folks, we're talking about a different animal.

I agree, Victor. When one is looking outside the marriage for "validation," then something is wrong with the marriage, but more importantly, something is wrong with the person.

I had a lot of growing up, and changing attitudes and learning some self-discipline, and coming to love myself, before I was ready to meet Marge.

Sorry Carl...I disagree with you on this one.

M

Again, I agree w/you 100% victor. And Carl. Sorry Mark, I guess you disagree w/me too. Like I said before, there IS such a thing as emotional affairs & they can be just as harmful, if not more, than physical affairs. B/C you're dealing w/people's hearts.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

OK if Carl, MrsJF and I all agree, then it must be so.

Just curious Mark, when you wrote:
...what did you mean by that? What is the difference? I've been married so long now that I think I fail to see the difference between married and unmarried partners. And if there is a difference - between the "married" and "unmarried" partners - when does "it" change? Certainly not on the wedding day.. or does it?

I asked this before but I'll ask it again because it's something I notice alot.Why is it that it often seems so much more 'acceptable' for a woman to see another man or leave her marriage for another or to start up a new relationship soon after a split than for a man to do so? If she leaves him its 'well she deserved better' or ' she's better off without him' etc etc. Yet when he leaves its 'how selfish of him?' or ' that poor woman , how could he?' or 'I'll bet he was cheating on her' etc etc. Why? Are men not as entitled to happiness as women?

Personally, I think it would depend on the individual people.

Really, of course, we should just mind our own business and offer a shoulder where necessary.

Victor wrote:

Just curious Mark, when you wrote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think when we're speaking of married folks, we're talking about a different animal.
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...what did you mean by that? What is the difference? I've been married so long now that I think I fail to see the difference between married and unmarried partners. And if there is a difference - between the "married" and "unmarried" partners - when does "it" change? Certainly not on the wedding day.. or does it?

Well...what I mean by that in the context of my original answer was that the couple PDM was talking about were young (in thier early 20's) and probably together for not really a long time. When you are married for a while (say 10 - 15 years or more, you are more apt to realize that you have changed in many ways since you were first wed, and that may lead to dissatisfaction in your relationship in some ways. Or perhaps a feeling of wanting to experience something new.

It isn't uncommon for people to have needs that a spouce cannot adequately satisfy. And I'm not just talking about sex.

Suppose, for instance, that after 15 years of marriage you are no longer the same person you were intellectually as you were when you got married. And suppose further, that you met someone of the opposite sex who had some of the same passions and intellectual interests as you. There could be a possibility of things developing there, right?

I feel that some of these changes in the individual can take some time to come about. It can happen to any couple living together for a long time, married or not.

Does that make sense?

From Argyll:
Yes, I can see that. And it is a sad scenario, but probably not uncommon. To me, that is the story of 2 people who have fallen out of love. In that particular instance - if 2 people are truly no longer in love, or no longer share the same hopes and vision of the future, then I would not advocate staying together just for the sake of staying together... or "for the kids" for that matter. That is probably why many people get divorced, and it is depressing.
Although it could happen to anyone - I tend to think that it happens to people who had some tragic flaw with the marriage to begin with. That's just a guess on my part - but it seems like there must have been some difference or lack of something that the couple was willing to overlook initially, and then that little something just got bigger and bigger. Or, perhaps, the couple got married for some superficial reasons or conveniences without thinking through the long term compatability. Of course, its possible for people to just grow apart - but most day to day differences can be worked out by committed compatible partners.

Nonetheless - now I think we are talking about 2 different animals. One is a couple that has fallen out of love and does not see a future together. Answer = Divorce. NOT CHEATING.
The other scenario - of the cheating partner - has more to do with a couple that probably still loves each other, has no real intention for divorce, and yet somebody has a secret affair - for lust, adventure, boredom, or even ideas of "love" for another - yet they really don't want to give up their partner. To me - that is lack of self control, and if you love your partner, and are committed to your partner, you should not allow yourself to go down that pathway at all. You'd stop it before it got that far.

Back at ya: Does that make sense?

Makes sense to me. If they're doing it for excitment or an adventure, shows how little they respect their partner.

Seen this happen with a few guys I know - particularly when they holiday in the Philippines. Their ego gets a full shot when they find themselves surrounded by young girls that charge less than a cup of coffee, too bad they don't stop to think of the serious diseases over there.

Victor wrote:

"Sure - lots of married people find other people attractive, intriguing, desirable .. alot of those are natural feelings that cannot be helped. But going down that road, trying to get to know that "other" individual a little better - that is a big mistake that is clearly avoidable in my mind."

And:

"Again I disagree - and perhaps this has as much to do with definitions as anything. Using my definition above, love involves an enormous emotional committment - more of a "melding" of two individuals - so falling in love with another individual outside of marriage - even just "emotionally" and not physically, is still a huge breech of the love "contract" in my book."

-------------------------------------------------

Victor:

I think you're looking at this with your mind rather than your heart. It's said that the longest twelve inches in the world is the distance between your brain and your heart.

Marriages - even healthy ones - go through valleys. You can't be on top of the mountain all of the time. I can't, anyway. And I feel that at a time like this, if the circumstances are right, you can fall in love with another woman.

Tell me you're immune to a beautiful woman, Victor. Tell me that a woman in a form fitting dress, with long hair, big eyes and a killer smile doesn't do you in. And when she walks by, you smell her perfume or her hair. And when she looks at you there's a twinkle in her eye. And to make things more difficult, she admires you and respects you greatly. She hangs on your every word.

Now, suppose you're around her every day at work, and after a while you realize how amazing she is. She's smart, sexy and has an amazing personality. And hey...she likes philosophy, wine and cooking...and so do you!!

And lets say that you start to have lunch together and sometimes a quick drink together after work, and after a few weeks you realize that you can't stop thinking about her at all.
She drives you crazy, so you decide to tell her how you feel about her. And to your surprise, she tells you that she is in love with you.

You find your heart pounding because you can't believe your ears. This goddess feels the same way as you do, but you're married. Your wife, who has been there and put up with you all these years, who has been your greatest strength and supporter for half of your life, doesn't enter into your mind at that moment. All you think about is this woman who makes you feel so good and so alive.

And that's when you walk away, because if you kiss her...you're a dead man!

So tell me Victor...tell me this couldn't happen to any one of us married men. Remember, Samson was brought down by the beauty of a woman.

Women can be magical, as you know. And I just feel that given the right circumstances, when everything is in the right place, you can fall in love with another woman. I'm not even remotely suggesting that I believe in crossing the line, but love is indeed possible.

And to be honest with you, it doesn't have to be a bad thing either. Women are the most wonderful thing we have on this planet, and I think we should love them all.

And J-bo...I'm not suggesting that this is something to do for excitement. But it is something to do for the joy of loving.

Well there's a lot of difference between loving and lust

Yes, there is. And i'm talking about love.

From Mark aka Argyll
whoaaaa - OK so we are really going into this one ....
OK first I will say that LUCKILY I have not been in this situation described by Mark. And I pray that I am never going to be. Without baring too much of my soul - I will say this - I would stop it before it even got to having lunch by ourselves, and definitely not a drink after work. At that point, I think betrayal has already begun.
When you choose to get married - or choose a serious lifelong partner - then you choose to give up a few other things. That's a choice you make and a commitment you make.
I am not claiming that I'm invulnerable - but to date - I have been married 8 yrs and have not felt even remotely tested. Could things change -perhaps but I doubt it. I can find others attractive, but that's it. I have no interest or intent in seeing if there is a "connection" or mutual feeling, and for some strange reason I haven't had tons of women knocking down my door. Not sure why - but aside from my average to below average looks, I'd say its because I don't send out any vibe that I'm looking. even remotely.

I do see what you're saying, Mark. But I think that a man content in his marriage does not go down that path. that door has been shut. He can look out the window - but it stops there. with no regrets.

....somebody help me out here ....

If you work with people, then you may well have coffee or lunch together ~ depending on the work, you may spend a lot of time alone together.

I read that police partners can become very involved with and dependent on each other ~ and if one is male and the other female, then this relationship, if it proves to be a good one, can test a marriage to extremes.

Hi Victor:

I'm not trying to justify anything at all, but I guess my point boils down to the fact that life changes...we change...and sometimes we need something from another person - say of the opposite sex - that we don't receive from our spouse.

Unless you find an exchange on emotional level with someone a betrayal, I don't see anything wrong with connecting with someone on that level.

Love has many faces and can be experienced in many ways other than within marriage. I think this requires an open mind and freedom from religious restraints.

I know this is a difficult one to get your head around.

And I'm not trying to win an argument here. But how can you tell someone what an orange tastes like unless they've eaten one themselves?

From Mark [quote] And I'm not trying to win an argument here. But how can you tell someone what an orange tastes like unless they've eaten one themselves? [/quote]OK - you've got me there (after taking 3 minutes for me to figure out what you meant :) ). You're right - I have not felt tested, so I have not been there. My question is, do some men (and women), just let themselves be tested. Not intentionally, but out of carelessness or naiveté (or however you spell that) - do they get themselves in situations that could have been avoided. I imagine the more beautiful you are, the more advances come your way - so with all probability i'll be in the clear in that department, and for that i am thankful. Also from Mark: [quote] Unless you find an exchange on emotional level with someone a betrayal, I don't see anything wrong with connecting with someone on that level. [/quote]Although I am not a fan of slippery slope arguments - this is one time where I am leary of any emotional connection that supercedes that of your chosen life partner. As I stated much earlier - I think platonic relationships with members of the opposite sex are rare. There usually is one or the other or both who have other thoughts. I personally am willing to take a pass on a great platonic friendship, just as a preventive measure to keep my marriage and my own fidelity in tact. but as you said - haven't had to taste that orange... have you?

No judgment from me, Buddy. Food for thought.

I have a history (before Marge). I won on all accounts.

Anita Bryant said it best: "A day without orange juice is like a day without sunshine!"

That being said, I've never been unfaithful to my wife. And yes, I've been tested by fire.

Carl:

I have a past too - and a current, which is still playing itself out in my life. Life can be difficult at times, and admittedly...women are my weakness.

I'm lucky to have my wife and I acknowledge that. She's much better than I am and I probably don't deserve her. But I do know that she's my strength.

But, life is too complex to treat as a simple thing. So, I choose to live with its complexities and I endure the consequences.

Love can be hell!

And Victor...I'm not suggesting that it's okay for those that look for it because that indicates a total lack of respect for your spouse.

I'm just saying that life is a complex thing and sometimes you will be surprised at what can happen. I don't think it's wise to turn away someone who can give you something you need at a given time in your life. And sometimes these people can come in the softer, curvier and most etheral package!

I think that someone said something about platonic friendships and about not having lunch together, etc, because you don't know where it might lead.

Well, this set me thinking, because I have had friendships with males, and had lunch with male friends.

I don't know if these friendships could, in certain circumstances, turn into anything else, because I just don't let them. They are friendships and I am in a faithful marriage and that's that.

That's the thing, these men may be really nice and attractive people ~ after all, you wouldn't really want to be friends otherwise ~ and if I wasn't married, then who knows how the relationships might work out, but because I'm married I don't know. It's not an option. These are friendships & not romances.

My husband knows these people.
He has lunch with women from work.
I trust him and he trusts me.

Unfortunately this scenario has a sad ending. The woman suicided last week. She was in such a low mental state that she couldn't cope with constantly finding the photos buried in his computer, his laptop, his flashdiscs etc. etc. She'd delete them and find them replaced.

This man has been extremely foolish and lost the love of a good woman all because of a few brief days of what he called fun.

Male menopause - why can't they remember that the year they were born in never changes, no matter what.

I'll miss this lovely lady, she didn't deserve this.

Just in case someone missed the first post in the thread, here it is;

This is, indeed, a sad scenario, Aerial. I'm really sorry about your friend.

Well that is just a terrible story and I'm sorry to hear it.

After hearing the points of Mark and PDM - both of whom I respect - I can only say that we each have to do what works for us and works for our marriage. There never is a one size fits all recipe, that's for sure.

Maybe I just don't want to find out how I would do in a tempting situation, so I don't let myself get tempted. Frankly, I am so busy with work, home, etc, that I don't meet many new people, and fortunately I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

I do think that whatever "needs" might be filled outside of marriage -physical, emotional, spiritual, whatever - they need to be measured against the consequences they can bring to the marriage -whether it is pain, loss of trust, suspicion, STD, sufferring - or total devestation - such as appears the case with Aerial's friend.

Yes, I think it may depend on the people & the circumstances.

Now that we have a section for relationships, I thought I'd move this thread. Maybe someone will have something new to add??