RomanceClass.com Forums Romance Does He/She Like Me? Need a little insight

Hey,

I've been running around and around in my head about a topic I've come across. Now, most of you don't know me very well, but I struggle a lot with women (dating/friendship) on a basis that my social life with women is non-existant at the moment.

Here's the topic. I read in a list of "10 things men do to screw up dating relationships with women". The number 10 reason is Being Too Nice. Ok, so naturally I'm a nice guy. I treat people with respect (men and women), I like to take time for other people when asked of me or when I feel like volunteering. I basically would put my life on hold for a brief moment to help someone in need... someone who needs a friend.

On a date, I would buy her meal, hold a door open for her, compliment her (NOT TOO MUCH, once... maybe twice during the whole evening.) Do the classic gentleman type of things.

Now when it comes to women, I can see where some of this might come across as being too nice. But, when I get the sense that I'm being too nice, I try every now and then to be a jerk. Mostly its just playful poking and teasing, but when something really irritates me that a girl that I know in my life does, if I get xxxxxx in anyway, it makes no difference whatsover in the relationship. It actually ends it right then and there. For example, earlier tonight I received an email from a friend of mine (female friend) saying she was sorry that she hasn't returned my calls (which were about a month ago that I called.. i just gave up on her). My question is, should I just let it roll off my back and say, "It's ok." OR should let her know how I feel that its taken her this long to get back with me AND that it wasn't a phone call like it should have been!! My dilemma is this: if I go for being "nice" about it, it won't change our relationship. It'll stay exactly right where it is. Me calling her up occassionally, and she never calling me up, and occassionally calling me back. If I get xxxxxx about the situation, she will probably never speak to me again. She won't feel bad, she'll just wait for me to get over it.

The only reason I am assuming these two outcome is because these are the same exact outcomes that have happened with 11 potential other women in my life. I'm too nice about something, the relationship doesn't grow, even when I make several attempts at doing so. I become the jerk, they never speak to me again. Am I missing something? What should I do? I'm confused, frustrated, angry, and alone all at the same time!!

I know my last post seemed confusing. After reading it myself, I was a bit confused on some parts. I pretty much rushed the whole thing. If anyone is confused reading this post and trying to make sense of things, ask me here to clarify or email me. I'll do my best to explain things better. I'm so tense right now that my brain isn't working right!! :*(

something isn't adding up. You seem like a nice guy and you are doing all of the right things. You say, however that women seem to become distant and don't return your calls in a courteous manner. Are you saying also, that you have gotten angry with all 11 previous dates that have treated you this way? I can tell you that anger is a turn off. No woman or man likes someone angry at them. Nor do they appreciate being told that they are being rude. I don't know of any woman that doesn't appreciate gentlemanly conduct and nice treatment. Could it be that there is something else you are doing that is preventing the relationships from bloosoming or going forward? Have you tried asking a friend of the female persuasion if there is something you are doing or saying that is a turn off. Do you have a personal habit that you don't know about that is a turn off perhaps. I would be happy to help but you need to fill in a few more blanks. Or perhaps you do have a female friend that is more like a sister who could be brutaly honest with you.

Maybe it would help if we added links to your previous threads here:

Getting her to laugh.
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthread...7885#Post247885

Dilemma
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthread...7491#Post247491

Married for Love?
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthread...2191#Post332191

Joe, I notice that on another thread you stated that I seemed to be saying the same things that your friends were saying.

Maybe you are trying too hard, or maybe there is some little thing about you, that you are not aware of, that may be causing an obstacle to relationships.

May I suggest counselling.
A counsellor can give you feedback on your behaviour and personality and can give you advice on relationships.

You sound like a very pleasant person, who needs help from someone, who can talk to you honestly and pick up on anything that girls might find off-putting.

It may just be that you seem to be trying too hard and expecting others to try as hard as you do.

Life isn't that simple, though.

What do you think?

Good luck!

Now that could just confuse and irritate someone.

I'll try to give you some honest feedback, so please don't be offended.

From my point of view, I like people to be courteous & friendly, but being over-polite, to the point of being obsequious, would make me feel very uncomfortable indeed and probably irritated, too.

If someone made me feel uncomfortable in this way, and then started 'playful poking and teasing', I would become yet more irritated and even annoyed ~ wondering what they were up to.

If this person later phoned me and left a message, I might not feel inclined to call back.

However, some time later, I might think that the person is basically very nice & meant well, but was probably nervous at the time. I might then get back in touch with them, rather than allow them to think that I disliked them, etc.

If the person then became irritated and angry with me, I would assume that I should probably not have bothered to e-mail them.

Does this ring true, perhaps?



It depends on what you want.

Do you want to keep this casual friendship going or not?

If you think that this girl is not nice and genuine, then maybe you don't mind losing her.

But if she is nice, and you don't have many friends, maybe she is very valuable to you.

Maybe it is annoying that it took so long to get back to you, but maybe she's been away, or ill, or busy, or had family commitments, etc. Maybe she had a boyfriend, even.

If you feel that you need to say something about how long it has taken, then do so, but beware of the effect that it might have.

As for saying 'it wasn't a phone call like it should have been!!' ~ well, I'm afraid I don't agree with you. You cannot tell other people what they should do. There is no rule to say that she has to use a telephone rather than e-mail to contact you. There is no rule to say that she had to contact you at all.

Are you, perhaps, expecting too much of others and imposing rigid rules on yourself and on them?

Good luck

yes I agree with PDM on the e-mail thing. However, is it possible she lost your number, or forgot it? It's happened to me before and I just IM or e-mail the person however I know to get in touch. And sometimes people find it easier to type how the feel and say what they want.
Goodluck!

joandboys, you hit the nail on the head. It doesn't add up!! I know this seems odd, but THANK YOU for realizing that. Not a single person has looked at it from my perspective and said.. 'hmmm.. there's something not right going on here.' See, I've observed my friends/peers for years... both guys and girls. I watch how they behave among one another; how they interact. Now don't assume I'm sitting on the sidelines watching. My observations come from interacting as well. All of my guy friends have girls in their life that some would call them up to hang out. Just to put this in a nutshell, when it comes to phone conversations, instant messaging, text messaging, going to hang out, making plans to go on trips, etc (you know, just being friends... doing friend things.), both the guys and the girls make efforts amongst each other. The guys call up the girls, the girls call up the guys. My dilemma incurs only myself making the effort. With my guy friends its no problem. BUT with the women, I'm constantly making the effort. Maybe I am trying too hard... maybe I'm not. No effort is made on my behalf. What doesn't add up here also is that I will quit making any sort of effort all together. Will I hear from them in a couple of weeks? No. Most of the time, I won't hear from anyone is years.

I've even had my guy friends to help out on certain things. For instance, when one of previous roommates female friends would call while he was out asking to come hang out, I got him to tell her, "hey Jon's over at the apt, go hang with him for a bit and I'll be there later." Never got a positive response from that. Heck, when one would just show up while my roommate was out for a few minutes at the store, I would say, "hey, he's only going to be gone five minutes, you're more than welcome to come in and wait." That hasn't worked either. They give me some excuse to not want to stay and wait for five minutes. Is the excuse legitimate?? Probably... probably not. I can't get ticked off because I don't know if its something they have to do, or if its just an excuse because they don't want to hang out with me. And let me also point, that these are girls who I have met in a group with my guy friends, I do try to get to know them, converse with them, tell them a little something about myself... whether they ask or not. So it's not like these girls don't know a little about me. Maybe there is something I'm doing wrong, maybe its something I'm not doing at all. I can't figure it out!

It definitely seems to be a problem.

Maybe you're trying to analyze it too much, and making expectations of how others are to act. Try being a friend to others and be there for them.

Also, I think that the central thing for you right now is to be real with yourself. Give yourself a break - and some time. But don't be afraid of starting new paths.

I'm going to have to argue with you on this one PDM. First off, I will say, you're right that there is no rule. Common courtesy has no rules also. It's just guidelines we've created over the years and they change. It's not something you find written in stone or in the law books. Ok, look at it from your end. What if you had someone, a friend, that you called occassionally to talk too. This person would NEVER call unless it was call back from a missed call from you. And even sometimes that was occassional. Then, that person started returning your calls, NOT with phone calls, but apology emails. Frankly, I think, I would be a little peeved at this person myself.

And also, expecting too much? PDM, I'm just asking for a phone call. How hard is that? I'm not asking her to become my best friend and come hang out everyday evening I get home from work. I'm not asking for a phone call everyday. But since its been over month since my last two attempts to call her with voicemails included, and she sends me a message on facebook because she just happened to see me online. I mean, if a simple 2 minute return phone call is too much. Now, if she had mentioned to me that her phone was lost, stolen, then I wouldn't have blown up about it. But I don't know that. If that's the case then she would have lost my number. But I know she hasn't. She has it logged into her phones address book.

I do want to say one more thing. I know a lot of these things seem strange for a guy to complain about. I can't stand it either. These little things frustrate me, and I get more frustrated for being frustrated at the little things. It sucks! But I can't help noticing it because its something that I keep failing at in my daily life. There is something I'm not doing, or doing wrong, and I just don't know what it is. I am considering counseling again. I am reluctant too because my last 2 counselors weren't very helpful at all. Two very bad experiences. I did have a third that I saw and he was really good and did help on most things. The only problem is I've moved off and its very difficult for me to get back to see him on a regular basis. I don't know. It's still under consideration.