RomanceClass Forum Logo
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,697
PDM Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,697
Wow!

Is it just his personality, or is he just trying the children's behaviour of how far can I push Mummy & Daddy before they stop loving me? That is bad behaviour ~ no doubt about it.

I'll probably come back to this but first of all, I think that lots of kids are a bit like this ~ I say a bit. My son needs to be asked a few times before he remembers he's agreed to wash up, for example. On the other hand, he's a lot younger.

He has parties, but takes it upon himself to tell his friends that no smoking is allowed and no-one may go in the bedrooms, etc. On the other hand, he is one of just a few friends who don't come from broken homes. Stability is key, I think, in kids.

I know someone who, shall we say, took advantage of the hospitality of relatives ~ in effect, playing the blood relative off against the married partner. It caused friction, until that person was asked to leave, and this caused additional friction within the wider family, but the person matured and settled down and became independent. The relationship between all parties is now pretty good. Husband, though willing to support relative, stuck by wife, saying it was her home and that other people could not be allowed to upset the household. The thing is, the relative was not 'offspring'. That can make a huge difference, I think.

Anyway, to get back to your manchild. He is now 37. When he lived with you he was 27. Has any maturing taken place? Presumably the days of sex parties in your bed are over. (Presumably he should now be feeling guilty and ashamed that he ever allowed them to happen.)

How old was he at the time of the motor-bike accident?

He couldn't keep down a job, but he joined the army. Maybe the training and discipline would help him. Is he still in the army?
Obviously, the fact that his father is worried sick about him didn't enter his head, but was this done with malice, or because of thoughtlessness, or because he thought that it was the only way for him to grow up and be a man at last?

I think, also, it has probably become very hard now to see the wood for the trees ~ the things that other people do, just because they are not like you, and the things they do, just to be awkward.

I once had a mother and baby party at my home. It was for my little-one's birthday, but it was just for mothers and babies/toddlers. My sister-in-law was invited with her toddler ~ but brother-in-law and father-in-law turned up with her ~ and stayed. They just thought that, as it was a family birthday, they could come. I had told my own family that it was not that kind of do, so they hadn't come, but ...

Other families do things differently, and when you marry into another family, as we all tend to do, there are going to be misunderstandings and different values, etc.

This chap is still behaving like a teenager ~ probably the 19-year-old he was when you came on the scene. Until he was 7, he had Mummy & Daddy. From then, until 19, he had Dad to himself. Then you arrived and turned his world upside down. He's still stuck at that same age ~ relying on Dad, resenting the new lady, who has usurped his place as number 1 in Dad's life, and he's constantly checking that Dad still loves him, no matter what he does, and that even the new lady can't change that.

How much do his parents love him? ~ Enough to 'sob into their dinner napkins' because he has joined the army.

How much does his Dad love him? ~ Enough to 'drive an hour out of his way to bring him dress clothes'.

Does your appearance on the scene change things? ~ No, you didn't even go to the wedding.

How far can he push his Dad, before his Dad stops loving him?
How far can he push his Dad, before his Dad stops loving him more than he loves you?

It's a constant test, and I'm guessing that he doesn't even realise. He needs help to mature emotionally.

Because that's what kids need ~ to be loved more than anyone or anything else in the world ~ unconditionally.But he is an adult.
And he is still a kid. A bit of him is that 7-year-old, the rest is that 19-year-old. Some is now 37, but he's not being allowed out much.

I really think that counselling is the only answer. That boy-man needs to see things objectively. Probably you all do by now.

Hubby is just locked in the middle of something that he can't cope with. What is he supposed to do? Whatever he does will look as if he loves one of you more than the other. He can't bear that ~ and he can't bear to lose his boy and grandchild. He probably can't bear to lose you, either, but he's burying his head in the sand on that one, because his brain can't take on any more conflicting emotions.

Is counselling an option?
Would everyone agree to it?


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
P
Pudgie's mom
Unregistered
Pudgie's mom
Unregistered
P
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this:

"He's still stuck at that same age ~ relying on Dad, resenting the new lady, who has usurped his place as number 1 in Dad's life, and he's constantly checking that Dad still loves him, no matter what he does, and that even the new lady can't change that."

Some of his behavior was typical teenager stuff, no doubt -- pushing limits, etc., and some of it was definitely attention-seeking.

At this point, I agree with you that "...it's a constant test, and I'm guessing that he doesn't even realise. He needs help to mature emotionally."

Part of the problem with Sonny and D.-in-Law is a sense of entitlement, and I know that drives many people of my generation (and up) absolutely nuts. S. & D.-in-L. have expressed their desire for a dresser/bureau that had been Sonny's as a child, but then say, "I see (sigh!) that you're using it in the guest bedroom, so... sigh..." I find myself astonished at such pushy, greedy, leech-like behavior, but I hear it goes on all the time.

I am trying, therefore, to keep in mind that Sonny comes from an entire generation of Americans who were spoiled rotten and had no major social issues to worry about.

Nonetheless, though, one of the big pieces of baggage that I carry around (with regard to Sonny) is the fact that he never apologized for a single thing. If he does feel guilty or ashamed about anything that happened, he's keeping it to himself, and has consistently portrayed me to his wife and friends as the classic evil stepmother!

Perhaps on some level he did feel that army life would "straighten him out" a bit; the main factor that has kept him in line for the past few years is his wife. Her bossiness, grating though it may be to some of the family, has kept Sonny on the straight and narrow, although why she supported his army decision is anyone's guess... He is out now, on a medical discharge, so he's home (permanently), not employed, and is going to medical specialists about his ankle problem (the cause for his discharge).

Hubby would agree (reluctantly) to counselling, as would I, assuming that the two of us can be crystal clear on the goals and honest about our agendas. I do think that could work...

As for Sonny, I don't know. It might be a huge, positive step if the three of us (or even just Sonny and hubby) could hash out some issues and get some clarity, and I would be willing to at least give it a try.

On a side note, here, re: "I once had a mother and baby party at my home. It was for my little-one's birthday, but it was just for mothers and babies/toddlers. My sister-in-law was invited with her toddler ~ but brother-in-law and father-in-law turned up with her ~ and stayed. They just thought that, as it was a family birthday, they could come. I had told my own family that it was not that kind of do, so they hadn't come, but ..." Isn't that a peculiar situation? lol As hostess you can't very well say, "Er, you two need to leave," but it seems unfair to your other male relatives if those two stay...

Thanks again for the advice!

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,697
PDM Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,697
Originally Posted By: Pudgie's mom
... Part of the problem with Sonny and D.-in-Law is a sense of entitlement, and I know that drives many people of my generation (and up) absolutely nuts. S. & D.-in-L. have expressed their desire for a dresser/bureau that had been Sonny's as a child, but then say, "I see (sigh!) that you're using it in the guest bedroom, so... sigh..." I find myself astonished at such pushy, greedy, leech-like behavior, but I hear it goes on all the time ....

It does sound as if he thinks that he has first entitlement to his father's time, money, love, etc, which, I think, is down to the 'wicked stepmother stealing Daddy away' scenario. And, I must admit, I do have some sympathy with that. I'm not saying that his father wasn't entitled to fall in love again, or that the boy should have been rude to you, or anything else of that nature ~ just that it must be very hard for a youngster to suddenly have to share the father he has had to himself for a number of years ~ and not even with his own mother, but with someone who he feels has invaded the family.

As for the dresser.
Who actually owns it?
Was it just part of the general furniture that was in the home when he was a boy?
Who bought it?
Did it actually belong to him?
Was it bought specifically for him?
Did his mother own or buy it?
Does he have good reason to believe that he has more right to it than you do?


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
P
Pudgie's mom
Unregistered
Pudgie's mom
Unregistered
P
Originally Posted By: PDM
it must be very hard for a youngster to suddenly have to share the father he has had to himself for a number of years ~ and not even with his own mother, but with someone who he feels has invaded the family.

As for the dresser.
Who actually owns it?
Was it just part of the general furniture that was in the home when he was a boy?
Who bought it?
Did it actually belong to him?
Was it bought specifically for him?
Did his mother own or buy it?
Does he have good reason to believe that he has more right to it than you do?


Many years before I met Hubby, but well after his divorce from Sonny's mother, he dated a woman with a daughter for many years. They didn't live together (which as you rightly point out has been a huge issue for me & hubby & sonny), but they talked about it.

They ended up breaking up because of arguments about child discipline. She felt that Hubby simply wasn't disciplining Sonny at all, and it was unfair to her daughter to live up to a stricter set of standards; how could living together or a marriage work with such different parenting styles?

When I first heard that from Hubby and from mutual friends, I felt so sorry for Hubby & marvelled at how manipulative Sonny was. Now I can see it a bit more from Sonny's perspective, and I marvel at Hubby's ability to deny or ignore criticism... strange...

The dresser was given to Hubby and Ex-wife to use for Sonny; it would then have been used for any other children they might have had (but didn't).

When Sonny finally moved out, burning bridges with me and to a lesser extent with Hubby, I later painted the dresser and we have used it in the guest bedroom.

Two years ago, I found Sonny's old lawn chair from childhood. I spent two days straight cleaning it and sewing on new padded cushions, so we could give it to granddaughter, since it might have sentimental value for them. I've also made sure that anything of Sonny's that turned up during closet reorganizing was given to him.

If circumstances were different, and Sonny & d.-in-l. asked for dresser, we'd say "fine." They apparently either don't understand or don't "own" the fact that he left this house under a dark cloud, burned an awful lot of bridges, and has never apologized. D.-in-l has bought all of Sonny's stories about "evil stepmother" and has never once, in all this time, pulled me aside and asked about the past or asked if there is a "fix" for the situation.

I don't care one whit about the actual dresser. It's the idea that I'm somehow a crummy person, "hoarding" what should be Sonny's property, that irritates me.

I sometimes think that the two of them see Hubby as a bottomless pool of resources for them (but with me standing in the way); whether that reflects a "first entitlement" issue or just sheer "cluelessness," I don't know.

Sad to say, but if Hubby dies before me, Sonny and D.-in-l will have the surprise of their lives, in terms of allocation of our resources. I would set up an inheritance for Granddaughter, for when I die, but those two won't see a dime. ("Revenge of the 'Evil' Stepmother" -- it is a silly but calming fantasy for me)

Then there's the further issue that Sonny never, ever asks Hubby if he needs a hand with anything, if he's given a thought to retirement, if he wants to come over and spend the day, etc. Hubby always initiates a visit. On Father's Day, Hubby is lucky to get a mere phone call -- no card or gift.

Sorry -- I believe I'm off and running on another rant about them! crazy

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,697
PDM Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,697
It sounds like he needs to sort himself out, so that he can mature fully ~ and to sort out his feelings about you.

As for his wife ~ well, she's just sticking by her husband, I suppose.

Things are rarely completely clear in family disagreements, so, if you can get this counselling sorted out, I think that it should be beneficial to everyone.

Good luck.


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
P
Pudgie's mom
Unregistered
Pudgie's mom
Unregistered
P
Thank you.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,101
Soulmate
Offline
Soulmate
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,101
After reading all of the posts and listening to the general tenor of most of what has been said I have an observation that I would like to share. I was in a "step" mother situation myself at one time. There was the typical denial of what was occuring. Denial that there were problems that wound up doing damage to the child. The child it turned out was damaged beyond repair long before I got on the scene. I was fighting a uphill battle until I discovered everything that had been going on and that everyone knew about the problems and had ignored them for years. By the time I got on the scene I was dealing with a six year old that was a liar, a thief,a con artist, a fire starter, animal abuser, manipulative, failing in school, and without a conscience. I spent my days working and my evenings picking up after three children and combing the neighborhood till 10:00 at night looking for her. Nothing we did, including, a psychiatrist helped. Her father finally admitted that he and the grandmother had known about the stealing for a while and that recommendations by teachers to hold her back in school had been ignored. Teachers observed the same thing I did. She acted like she never heard what was said the day before. She was intelligent, just overwhelmed by work that she could not do. Finally the father was forced to admit the truth. The strain was overwhelming on the marriage. I wanted to love her, but not a day went by that I was permitted too. There was always something that caused me to have to be diciplining or restricting her. It became such an unpleasant relationship that I knew I could not be the mother she needed. I was having a terrible time finding love in my heart for her. I was also haveing a terribly difficult time trying to be fair and still be a good mother. The line between being a good mother who wanted her to mind me and being an over bearing step mother was beginning to blur. I was dealing with something every day. One day she would steal my son's paper money and go to the carnival with her friend. One day she would pan handle around the neighborhood for money telling the neighbors that I needed gas money. One day she would steal a coin collection from a friends father and fence it on the street. Every day she would stay out late somewhere and not come home after school. One day she would try to choke the hamster by lighting matches near it. One day she would try to poison the cat who clawed her. You get the picture.
My point is, I have been where you are. I don't think there is anything deep about Sonny's adjustment to the relationship or sharing his father. He and you just plain don't get along. Whatever chance you both had of forming a relationship went wrong real early and never got better. He was used to a certain relationship with his father and when you came along you wanted to introduce new aspects like chores and rent. I don't know if his father went along with these things or not. If he didn't then that made you the inforcer and the bad guy because it was your idea. If he didn't go along with it, then that should have been your first clue that you would be cast in the roll of wicked step mother whether you wanted it or not.

From the tone of most of your posts, your angry and disgusted and you don't have the slightest bit of motherly love for Sonny let alone any other kind of affection. I am sure he has been aware of this since the age of 20. He is now 37 and you have been rubbing each other wrong for 17 years. I would venture to say that you would have to be a saint not to have allowed how you feel affect your actions and words towards him. He sounds like he has been a demon in the past but I don't think he could ever do anything that you would approve of. I don't believe Sonny is the problem anymore. If you don't find some way to let go of the anger and resentment and realize how it has affected your "objectivness" where he and your husbands conduct is concerned , you will be right where I was. You will be so angry and so frustrated that you won't be able to tell if your reactions are correct or biased by years of hateing Sonny. You are going to be the only looser here. You will wind up being what you think they are making you out to be. "The wicked step mother". I was so close to being just that that I stepped back and took a good look at what it was doing to me and I walked away. The reason I walked away was that I realized I could no longer be her mother at all. She would be better off without me. You don't have to be a mother to Sonny. He is a grown man. You do have to make peace with your husband and live in that family without affecting your husbands right to his own relationship with sonny in his own way.
PDM is so totally right on this one. Unless you want to walk away, you NEED to get counseling to help you let go of the anger and find that way. I wish you luck, I hope I have not offended you in any way. I only want to help because I know the hell you are living right now. I lived it. In Spades.



Cookie and Sweetie
P
Pudgie's mom
Unregistered
Pudgie's mom
Unregistered
P
Wow - what a nightmare for you!

I'll give your post more thought and get back here a.s.a.p....

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,697
PDM Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,697
Yes, some of those points, made so well by Jo, are ones I was picking up on a little, myself ~ I just wasn't sure. I think that they should be very helpful to you, Pudgie's mom, as you try to survey the wider situation, as objectively as you can.


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Lisa Shea 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Latest Posts
Avoid Ghosting a Person
by Lisa Shea - 11/11/21 06:22 PM
Go To A Museum
by Lisa Shea - 11/11/21 06:17 PM
In Sickness and in Health
by Lisa Shea - 11/11/21 05:05 AM
i like my ex's friend
by Lisa Shea - 11/11/21 05:03 AM
Getting Closer to a Sibling
by Lisa Shea - 11/11/21 04:59 AM
Daily Yoga
by Lisa Shea - 11/11/21 04:54 AM
Privacy
This forum uses cookies to ensure smooth navigation from page to page of a thread. If you choose to register and provide your email, that email is solely used to get your password to you. Nothing else. Ask with any questions!
Forum Areas
Non-Romance Relationships
Does He/She Like Me?
Dating
Long Term Partners
Breaking Up
Health and Exercise
Organizing and Cleaning
Stress Reduction

Newsletter
Forum Guidelines
This forum takes web safety issues very seriously. Please make sure you have read and understood our Forum Guidelines before posting.
Advertising
Support Our Friends
The Animal Rescue Site
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5